Vodafone Idea Limited FPO Message Board (Page 71)

Very good question.
Pls any fno expert answer it for public interest.

​@Mr. Agrawal 

1. If the price increases on listing day and closing is above 11, the 11 PE will become zero (assuming April contract), in this case you can leave the PE open if you want and it will expire with zero value.
2. If price falls below 11 and say the closing is at 10, then the 11 PE will be worth 1 Rs.
Whatever loss you will face from allotment, PE will mostly cover it. **BUT there is a big catch **, make sure you close the option position before the closing here.
As it is in the money put option, you will need to deliver the shares in case the position is not closed by end of trading hours on expiry.

Not an F&0 expert but will try to answer some of your questions
Taking case of April 11 Put
Case 1 - if price increase,your put value become zero ,still additional margin requirements can come due to expiry

Case 2 - if price come below 11 ,your put value will increase,but margin requirements will be very high almost 5-6 lakh

Better to take may 11 put ,as margin requirements will remain low in both condition,only cost of hedging increases

If you get 80k share at 11

Case 1 price increase (above 11),put value become zero, no need to square off,
still additional margin requirements can come due to expiry

Case 2 ,price become 10 ,put value will be 1 ,but huge margin requirements and penalty chance if you are not able to square off

So in all case go for may put for safety

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong

Thanks Bhai.. ! 2 more things...
I placed buy order today but it didn't go through .. can we still buy on Thursday or will it go in ban?Margin required to square off on expiry ??..is it around 4-6 lakh what max amount should we keep in demat on safe side as margin..?
Bharti mai re-enter Kiya kya ??I sold all.

​@Hokagenaruto  Yeh sab sawal the mann mai jinka jawab nahi mila tha..isliye aaj buy kr hi ni paya order pending reh gya.... Will try to buy May Put on Thursday ....
Still thinking isme negative listing ke chances hai kya ... ? Why are we trying to buy puts. . Is no one applying open Bhni applications here ?? @GrayIsTheNewBlack Bhai bech ke hi lgaoge ?

​@MR AGARWAL I took 2 put May 11 today ,you can try on Thursday if idea f&o ban mai nahi gaya toh ,image dekho pay off ki , suppose stock 1may ko 11 bhi ho gaya toh 1 lakh profit put se hoga , allotted share se 0,suppose 10 ho gaya 1.98 profit hoga , allotment se 80k loss if bhni fully alloted, suppose 15 ho gaya toh 30k put mai loss ,3.2lakh profit from stock allotted,big catch I'm assuming good share allotment in this

Mujhe toh may 11 put ki cost hi 24k dikha rha hai... for 2 lots 48 k ...how much did you got for ...??
April 11 put ka cost Kam hai 4 k to 8K..

​@Mr. Agrawal Mene Aaj hi buy Kiya tha tab 16k ki cost thi for 1 lot , evening Tak woh 24k ho gaya per lot

​@Hokagenaruto  Could see the lowest price @0.2 which translate to 16 KINR for one lot hence this query from my friend @MR AGARWAL  . For 2 lots it should have been 32 K .
Did you happen to buy @ 0.1 today , then for 2 lots it comes to 16 KINR.

My worry wrt query May PE is that how if there is extended FnO ban, as it is tpone to , it will have theta ( decay) effect also. Are we taking that into consideration.

Isn't May12 PE , though higher margin more beneficial ??

Pls read prone instead of tpone ..

​@Mr. Agrawal @Hokagenaruto The april options are near expiry and decreasing premium hence will have lower margins. May expiry options will have higher margins, even going forward, since currently there is transition from april to may expiry, so increase in premium and hence increase in margin from 16K to 24K, assuming 2 lots.

Since these are options bought (be it PE or CE) max loss will be the amount paid for premium if things do not go as planned, and some off it can be offset by allotment profits.

If these were futures we were talking about, then contract near expiry need more SPAN + Exposure so increased margins would have been needed, in case April expiry is chosen.

@Rakcyt Yes that would be more beneficial and more profits if things go as planned but higher margins and higher losses, if does not go as planned or if profits from allotment aren't enough.

​@Hokagenaruto What if not allotted.?

​@MuStrFc Agree. There is a point.
Although FnO were launched with sole purpose of hedging against equity but never tried this way rather go for speculations. Discussions look interesting as in real sense it justify why FnO is required

​@MuStrFc I bought at 0.2 ,16k per lot ,I bought 2 lot that's why total 32k cost

​@Marwadi Gang Having 7 account,2 with bhni power ,3 with shni power ,2 for retail ,hoping for some allotment instead of nil,in the end depends on subscription and luck in case of over subscription

Lo Bhai phir ban lag gya ... Now I won't be able to buy put ...is it Safe to go open here ??

​@Mr. Agrawal Wait for Anchor list, observe and decide on last day.

​@Mr. Agrawal - Bhai abhi to screen dekhke FF open
Agar 11 me milne wala maal screen pe koi 12.5-13 me le rha hai to kuch to baat hogi
Jitne paise ho sake, maximum amount tayyar rakho (this is one of those rare IPOs jaha pe luck ki jarurat nahi hai)

​@GrayIsTheNewBlack Bhai account sirf 5 hai.. toh should I apply more lots in each bhni application.. or stick to normal Bhni for confirmed allotment.
+ Ramdev Solvent ka refund aa jaega na time se.. nhi toh use bhi skip kre..aaj wala skip kr diya..

​@Mr. Agrawal - Ramdev ka refund Saturday ko aa jaayega most likely.
For decision about size of bHNI applications, I think we'll have to decide on the last day.
For now we can work on arranging as much money as possible.

​@GrayIsTheNewBlack So is it final..? you won't sell in grey or buy puts.. i will go Open... As it is in ban now and No access to grey I have no such options..

​@Mr. Agrawal Hello sir, I am also doing research on this matter from last one day what I Understood is this..... for April 11 PE I think we have to keep approx 9 Lacks in the a/c on expiry day as a margin if anyhow it goes below 11 say to .....10 for buying the physicall quantity of the shares which should be delivered on end of the expiry as our bought put became in the money though even if we buy it for Rs 10 or 9 we will get the payment as per our strike price which is 11, suppose if we already have let say 20000 shares in your that account which you have got in the FPO allotment still you have to buy 60000 more shares to deliver & probably but you have to keep the full contract amount as a margin on last day which is approx 9 Lacks  ........ If it became In the Money & we neither squared it off nor bought the shares to deliver the end of the day then probably it will be the big problem it will be treated as short undelivered & then auction penality will be charged ........ though if it remain out of the money then no problem no need to square it off only we will loose the premium we paid 4k or 8k whatsoever will be in that senario we can sell the FPO quantity alloted in various a/c .... and enjoy the profit after deducting that 8k.

​@GrayIsTheNewBlack Sir very true that we can not leave the In the money stock options without squaring off on expiry day hence I think we have to keep whole contract value approx 9 lacs in the account on that day as a margin

....secondly as its again in ban period so if it went below Rs 11 on expiry day will their be enough liquidity, is it possible that even if we want we can't square it off ........plz guide

​@Mr. Agrawal - As of now it looks okay to go FF, Monday tak 4-din me kuch bhi ho sakta hai.
So - if the positions are open better to apply last day only if everything is favorable.

@Sunsam - Liquidity issues hone to nahi chahiye.

​@GrayIsTheNewBlack Bhai bharti ka kya kra ... 826 se 1020 now... Entry Kiya kya wapas ..feels like missed gains .. aur ramdevbaba mai lga rhe ho ff??? Refund toh aa jaega na time se ..?? Applying in ramdev?

2

3

4

yes because its show in ais

Have you taken any agreement with your maid except a blind trust? What if tomorrow your maid goes to the police station and complains that you or your family have withdrawn 10 lacs from his / her account? How would you safeguard yourself?

​@IPOFreakThird person may be humble in present but not in future so it’s blind trust as of now.
What kind of safeguard I need to do in this case if you can suggest.

rahulkrjain

Don't do
Don't go

Sorry, I don't have a suggestion how to safeguard. However, money transactions always spoil relations (even blood relations) sooner and later, hence, such transaction should be avoided to regret at a later stage. Your call, if you can handle such arrangements. It was personal view and i just highlight a probable risk that can be fatal if occurred.
Coming to original question: Zerodha is best broker (All features in one), there are many banks which offer Zero balance account (however digital account opening and video KYC). Check SBI which is Zero balance with offline account opening.

O Bhai avoid such lalach... " Maid " ..meko kal hi notice aya hai family member ke case mai... Do not try things like this . . Jo log income nahi dikha rhe itni unke account mai bada transaction kroge toh notice aa jata hai . Account freeze alag kr dete jab tak explanation na do..

What if your Maid Account attracts IT liability depending upon transactions value in a particular Financial Year?

​@Mr. Agrawal What could be considered as big transaction? Any idea

What about KYC?

​@Mr. Agrawal Sir, I managed 20 accounts of my GF and my family and relatives for IPO. I have filed the income tax returns for each member through a Chartered Accountant. My CA advised me to maintain a cash book, ensuring that if I transfer ₹40,000 from A to B, I return ₹40,000 from B to A within the financial year. In one fiscal year, the total transactions amounted to ₹40-50 lakh, including broker transactions.

Will there be any issues in the future? I don't want to cause any trouble for anyone because of me.

​@Pran Pran  Your path is right .. but still high value transactions (above 10 lakh ) to non blood relatives are always under scrutiny... I didn't care abouth this before and did multiple transactions like bhni ke liye 10 lakh bheja phir sme ke liye wapas ek mai ikattha kar liya ... Usse 1 account ka peak value bhi bhot badh gya for short time .. all that has to be answered this year in notice ..if can't unnecessary tax liability..
You are already in touch with a good CA no problem.. Mine was not good ..didn't guide me much what to do what not ..

​@Mr. Agrawal ​ did you used to transfer the amount back to your account after closing of IPO or you kept that money in their account for another IPO?? And what is your strategy now for Bhni and SME IPO?

​@Tejas Pandya Bhai i didn't transfer it back .and as someone said you should take it back before financial year ends i didnt knew that...jinko jo bheja hai bhni amount ke uppar ka amount wapas mangwa leta hu Sme ke liye ..

Do you have any strategy .. Should I fix capital for each account and reduce transfer ?? How should we go :
A sent to B .. B sends to C
Or A sent to B ..B returns A .. A send to C

​@Mr. Agrawal sir ye notice ke case me kya seen hota?
also sir i am filling ITR from last 3 year still CA was like dont apply ipo in HnI you ll get notice is this real?? even can't i apply in SHNi?? even tho i used bank OD for ipo

​@Mr. Agrawal In case Blood relative transfer any issue could arise or not?

​@rampal ipo wala You can apply. I was unaware of alot of things like single FD 10lakh se badi ho toh usme bhi apatti hai ITD ko..income tax band hi kar dena chahiye wese bhi 2-4% log hi bharte hai..

​@Seth. Mere case mai toh Blood relative hi hai... Bs issue yeh tha unki income under 2.5 show hai.. and all of a sudden account inflows got huge.. so notice is issued ..

+ 1 major problem i was surprised to see.. they considered ipo shares sale value in hni allotment (Archean 250k) as full profit and buy value as zero .. as if shares were free .. and that's why huge taxable income is generated .. while actual profit was just 20-30% in that . Did someone else face this issues ??

​@Mr. Agrawal Oh ok

I also faced this issue of zero buy value and sale value showing full profit in my 2 family accounts but I updated in feedback tab about buy and sale value both at time of filing return

​@Mr. Agrawal I mean back and forth..Means u transfer money in your account after IPO close and then again send money to their account for applying another IPO..As I did same thing in last financial year for SME so wanted to know your experience and what you are planning to do in future??😊

​@Tejas Pandya Ha last financial year mai yehi Kiya idhar udhar bohot .. abhi uska effect agle return ke time pta chalega .. From this year ..sirf 20% Cash mai rkhunga for adjustments. baki equally accounts mai distribute krke fix kar dunga for bhni and 1-2 Sme.. What's your plan ?? How do you manage so many accounts 13+ ?? Are all blood relatives? How do you manage taxes and do you send them capital or its their own but you help them on % basis ??

Mr Agarwal ji blood relation me kon kon aata hai , like bhabhi, sister, mother ye sab aate hai kya

i am expecting bhni to get fully subscribed so 2.14lakh worth of shares

​@Nomee Looking at figures, it appears bHNI will get full allotment here. Let's wait and watch.

​@Sunsam  Only rule , ITM should be squared off to avoid penalty before closure of market , even if it's under FnO ban .

​@Rakcyt any liquidity issue if no buyer available how will I square off, something like that 5-6 lakhs margin requirement in demat a/c..... what is that.........

​@Sunsam  It seems you will go for 1 lot only , in that case margin what I observed is INR 1 Lac which if need be cancelled go up marginally. Depends how much volume you are opting for , accordingly multiply by that factor.
Liquidity may have effect on premium on expiry day due to large volumes.
As I have never faced such a situation, would wait for more comments from fellow members who have faced such a situation in the past.

Pls read Can in place of cancelled ...my bad due to auto speed mess

​@Rakcyt  Thanks sir ............ But I am not understanding what r u saying , Yes I have only 1 lot of 80000 for april month 11 PE , so should I keep 150000 to be on safer side in my zerodha's Trading a/c is that sufficient ....... & how will I square off if there is no liquidity or you mean to say that it will never happen that on expiry day there will be no liquidity for just 1 lot for in the money options .........

is there any possibility that ban can be removed again on 19 th or 22 nd april again ....

What you think? Anchor book is good or not?

Hello, if issue is oversubscribed, there is going to be lottery for allotment.

​@Chhote Lal  But what if application wise it is only 0.5x, because many ppl will go for 14 lots in retail. In this scenario, everyone will atleast get 1 lot of 15k, but what about remaining 0.5x, will that be distributed proportionally or will that go in lottery. Hope I am able to convey my query properly.

Each applicant will receive one lot, and the remaining shares in the retail category will be distributed on a proportional basis.

Assume there are only 200 lot available
As per you issue gets demand for 400 lots from 100 applicants
now let us assume 50 of these applicants are 1 lot and balance 50 contributed 350 lots
so now all 100 will get one lot first. Now 50 applicants are out as they applied only for 1 lot
So out of balance 100 lots we have demand of 300 lots. SO now these balance 50 who applied more than 1 lot will get 1/3 of extra share they applied over and above 1 lot

Hope it explains

​@arunARUN 
Perfect. Thanks for the explanation. So this means after getting minimum 1 lot, remaining will be distributed proportionally depending on lots applied by applicants.

here what is the probability for retail category subscription...... I think there is probability that retail is not going to cross 1x so I have few questions if experts can explain. 1. is it possible that retail will not cross 1x if so .... then 2. if anybody apply 14 lots will he get all 14 lots if retail subcription is less than 1x

​@Sunsam Well, you do not need any expert to answer that. If the issue remains undersubscribed in retail category and someone has applied for full lots worth about Rs 2L, he/she will be allotted full lots as per application.

​@Dhiraj Ramchandani Right, maybe even retail might get fully subscribed...👍👍

​@Dhiraj Ramchandani It will surely be interesting to see the subscription figures.
​@Vimal Garodia Looking at retail quota and sheer size of this FPO, it is highly unlikely that retail portion will get fully subscribed atleast on number of applicants basis. Let's wait and watch.

​@Chhote Lal: I believe this shall be fully subscribed in retail category, as there's good demand which is increasing day by day, with strong anchor list issued today, this will further go up. Also, due to weekend, this issue will remain for 5 days, so people have time to research or do analysis too.

The only thing I am still uncertain is escalation in IRAN/ISRAEL situation and market response to it. If its adverse, this may scare retail investors to invest in this FPO.

​@Dhiraj Ramchandani Respect your views, however 44L applicants in retail appears little doubtful. Subscription figures will be keenly watched.

​@Chhote Lal: yes, I mean, that is tricky, from applicants point of view here.. When you said, then I think, 44L applicants look too much. The only favorable thing is this is a consumer product company, like everybody knows its name, so it will fetch some additional retailers or non frequent retail applicants; but then 44L is to be something will testing waters

​@Dhiraj Ramchandani  Unlike LIC and Tata Tech , where retailers were excited as they anticipated unseen profits . Here retailers may be skeptical to the price history and anticipated downfall too , limited risk to reward ratio and not so promising future and hence enthusiasm may be missing .

​@Rakcyt  Looking at posts and comments, appears bHNIs are more enthusiastic. That leaves small retail participants like me with opportunity of little gains potential as plain vanilla apply, get and sell. Best wishes to those with sell and apply kind strategies 😇

In my opinion to compare VI with LIC and Tata Tech will be injustice with last to companies. When FPO is there, it's an open book and every pros and cons known by the investors. In IPO of both companies Tata was totally different where as there were lot of expectations to the investors in LIC. But all in wain in LIC
Any thing can happen on listing of FPO shares of VI. But it is not going to happen like TATA or LIC.
The members who believe in applying in bHNI is totally different than retailers. Not going on GMP only. Not bad for those who made good gains in Bharti Hexa. They have sweet in both the hands. Gains good and loss, adjustable in STCG. But nobody will like to bear loss. This is my thinking and not theirs.
As far as retail quota, it is difficult to subscribe fully in such a big FPO of big loss making company. Last day subscription figures will be very important to watch for the investors.
Have a nice time.

Exactly ....but everyone is having this logic that no one can get easy money. We know that easy money is not possible but here also have to make effort.

Have you hedged your position today by shorting future or something else or going to open ?

​@Kukreja IPO Ji

No hedging done in F&O or selling in grey.

I do believe hedging needs to be done based on risk appetite. For a retailer, it doesn't make sense to worry about hedging etc considering risk is small.

For BHNI allotment, it would depend on whether BHNI crosses 5x. If it does, it's an automatic hedging considering you get 2 lakh worth shares for 10 lakhs application..

If BHNI doesn't cross 5x, then it's a different ball game altogether. In such cases, I do feel either one should apply only so much where someone can handle a risk of 10-20% discount or one should sell in grey/F&O.

Solid anchor book.

Given the size of the IPO few mutual funds, Insurance company's investment would have been obvious.

But FIIs have taken huge bet which is excellent. On top of that Government has been giving positive statements regarding the FPO.

Will wait and watch till last day but for now it looks good to go full force. 😊

Personally I feel GMP has been miniscule now because of operators game.

Similar to that of Bharthi - 2nd day GMP was falling and people panicked and didn't apply.

In Vodafone also I believe same thing will happen. People with conviction will earn and later those who won't will say "Unnecessary risk kyun lena" 😉😉

Will be going FF, provided no retaliation from Iran.

QIB came and had a blast..

Confirm allotment in BHNI, retail.

Congratulations to all the allottees in Advance..

Risk and reward seems to be favorable. 😊

As mentioned in previous message, it has become a trend in many IPOs where on the 2nd day GMP starts falling and after 3rd day.. it starts rising.

Those with convictions (other than just GMP) and also risk appetites generally don't mind it.. 😊

Although couldn't apply full force because of HDFC portal not working around 2.15 onwards. (Saw others also having similar issue).

But have applied enough from 20 Demats to get good number of shares. 😊

Sceenshot

When Anchor book will come?

Today after sometime

Bse site showing 1800 shares in FPO. So with Rs 11 the issue size increases to Rs 19800 crores. There must be some mistake in Bse data

GQG

24.06% ( value 1304 cr) in total anchor book
Rajiv ji catches the future multi fold stocks ,it is in IPO or secondary market

​@Paymzia  Is he the MD of Bajaj finance also or is different ?

GJ

No
he is not a bajaj MD

​@Paymzia  Got it !! 👍

GQG is same group that invested hugely in Adani group shares during turbulent times.

​@Chhote Lal  Got it !! Perfect bull 🐂 backed by Govt ... 😅

Bulls eye 😜😀
Sahi pakde Hain !

​@Paymzia ,@Chhote Lal thanks both of u. GQG also picked up some stake sale done by promoters about a month ago at a level of 260-270 levels in Vedanta. This group is known for value hunting. let's see what happens in Voda-Idea stock which look like a sinking ship. 😳🤞

​@Chhote Lal sorry,it was mistake by me ,that my msg reported your reply as Spam..my intention was not at all to report your msg as spams. 🙏

​@SONMAYA That happens a lot because those two buttons are very near to each other.
Had suggested to Admin about separating these two buttons quite a few times..🙏🙏

​@SONMAYA It's okay, chill 😎
​@Vimal Garodia  Bhai, after this was brought to notice of Admin, they already incorporated confirmation pop-up to avoid accidental clicks. Think, they have done what was necessary and it works well 👍

GQG is like private LIC of GOI..

​@Chhote Lal @CJ ROCKS 
The pattern is similar in all the recent investments by GQG as Vedanta is no different from Idea when we compare their debt issues but still sustained due to constant pull over by identified investors.
Now it's clear that we should apply; sell and leave asap else it may be repeat of Kingfisher airlines in future who knows , which after constant pumping in of funds could not stand up .
Still holding reward points earned for future claims thru Kingfisher , will claim once Mallya come back 😀😀

​@Rakcyt Holding Kingfisher rewards was epic 😀
While cleaning one of drawers today, stumbled upon wet-tissue pouch of Jet Airways, which on opening was found fully dry. 😜
Moral of the story: Timely action is needed in most situations ! This FPO will not be any different.

​@Rakcyt Yes sir totally agree👍 with you. It is a short term opportunity and we should take calculated risk as per choice. Thanks for ur response🙏

​@Chhote Lal  While wet to dry is physical process, in digital process the double digit becomes single anytime .😀😀