FREE Account Opening + No Clearing Fees
Loading...

Reliance Power Limited IPO Message Board (Page 224)

Loading...
2618. Rajesh Modi |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:27:40 PM
To 2624. premchand - where this Column is originated. I saw this column at many sites , Nobody knows
Can anybody tell me exact valuation or RNRL which was 21Rs 1 year back , what does this co. do , has its manufacturing started , Rel Capital issue price 125/- if i am not wrong 2-3 years ago , was at a low of 1300 yesterday which is the ptice it was 7 months ago , today again it has become 1970/- , Rel energy at 1982.85 again which is very near to its one month low of 2162/- & which was 611 1 year ago -why people are buying power stock is the demand for power more than its is available. , what happened to Mundra Port which listed at 770/ - went to 1050 , people didnt sell & at 850/- people sold & there were people new Mundra prts Strength who bought it. Look at CBI cost 102/- share people sold at 130/- share now again 106.30 , but power grid cost - 52 now at 110.75.. If Reliance industries is so good co. why the one year return for RIL is only 164.00 % 52 week high 3298 , 52 week low 1248 , If we sell Reliance power at 9.55 at any price is it worth if at that time the price is 550/- compared to Mundra at 770/ which has a high of 1324/- , Just see DLF , cost 525/- share people
still have 180 shares & price is 923 - (525) * (180 ) = profit of 71640/- instead of selling at 660 / - cannot 80 shares of that be sold at 740/- & gain another 6400 Rs.. extra , instead of panic selling all DLF shares at 585/- Sell Reliance power shares at good price & not at meager price
2617. shivu kumar |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:25:44 PM
when would be the listingof reliance power ipo will it list at higher rates or it will be -ve on listing ever one is worried about it can u pls sugest me how it could be.

thank u
2616. Raj |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:21:44 PM
Reliance Power News : They have officially written to SEBI and the exchanges seeking permission to complete the allotment an refund process earlier than the stipulated time period.
2615. Ravipreet |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:20:05 PM
Dear Investors,
Don’t feel panic this crash will not effect you REPL listings. Ups & downs are momentums of market just wait watch. You will surly got the bumper listing. Fundamentals of Indian market are very strong. So don’t let you moral down.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Ravipreet.
2614. vasu |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:19:49 PM
hi 2624 premchand,
excellent work. appreciated. It didn't mean to scare people but to spread the facts b4 them.
2613. Arpit |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:10:15 PM
Hom many number of share will be allotted approximately?
2612. Gopi |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:08:58 PM
i have applied with 2 applications. my cheques have been cleared yesterday (22-01-2008). can anybody tell whether it is going to list under issued price? so advise me what to do? i have applied in two methods 1& 2
2611. tsn |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 4:06:44 PM
somebody tel me how many shres allotted.
2610. aah aaah aaaah |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:54:47 PM
Can someone please find out how many times is the RPL issue
(retail) fully subscribed ? i guess we will get more than 15
shares !!
2609. vijay khatu |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:52:25 PM
there r chances that u might get 30 instead of 15 but not more
than that. but if u want more that that u can contact me and
buy at 750 as in my opinion whatever others say the ipo will
not open less than 800
2608. mmm |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:48:29 PM
Can anyboday say that whethere we will get full allotment i.e. person who has applied for 225 shares of Reliance Power Ltd would get 225 shares or only 15 shares as many people have stopped payment
2607. vijay khatu |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:45:19 PM
hello. today rel stock rose by 20% so dont worry rel. power will not open less than 450+250=700
2606. Mohit Sood |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:44:51 PM
Mr Prem Chand.
I agree with u.......but do you think market run on fundamentals.....its a big gamble or you can say a casino.....no need to preach much.....people are already down with market , your messages like these will make them crazy
2605. vijay khatu |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:42:49 PM
hello. today rel
2604. PRIYA |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:38:43 PM
I HAVE APPLIED THROUGH MANUAL PROCESS, BUT STILL MY CHEQUE NOT CLEARED.
2603. premchand |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:23:44 PM
Now for all who have invested in the i PO... something to read !
Reliance Power Limited IPO

Opens: 15th January 2008.
Closes: 18th January 2008.

Price Band: Rs 405 to Rs 450.
Price Band for Retail Investors: Rs 385 to Rs 430. (Rs 20 discount).

Number of shares offered to public: 22,80,00,000 (22.8 crore).
+ Number of shares to be subscribed by promoters: 3,20,00,000 (3.2 crore).

Total new shares issued (sum of above two) = (26 crore)

Number of shares for retail investors: 6,84,00000. (6.84 crore).

Issue size (public) = (22.8 - 6.84) X 450 + (6.84 X 430) = 7182 +2941.2

= Rs 10123.2 crore.

Number of shares outstanding pre-IPO: 200 crore.
Number of shares outstanding post-IPO: 226 crore.

=======================================

Retail Investors and NII can apply with Rs 115 margin per share. (The details of this have already been discussed in earlier posts).

Maximum application possible in retail category = 225 shares.

=======================================

Already, a lot has been discussed about Reliance Power and its business (which will be there a few years from now).

This is an extremely rare case where SEBI has allowed a company with almost 0 revenues, to raise money via an IPO.

If this was an IPO by some smaller group, it would have been 100% rejected by SEBI for having no business.

=======================================

Business:

The company claims that it will be developing power generation projects of 28200 MW over the next decade.

According to the IPO RHP, some of the projects that it will be developing are:

Rosa-I (to be commissioned in March 2010) - 600 MW - Coal based.
Butibori (to be commissioned in June 2010) - 300 MW - Coal based.
Rosa-II (to be commissioned in September 2010) - 600 MW - Coal based.
Shahpur Gas (to be commissioned in March 2011) - 2800 MW - Gas based.
Shahpur Coal (to be commissioned in December 2011) - 1200 MW - Coal based.
Dadri (to be commissioned in March 2013) - 7480 MW - Gas based.
Krishnapatnam (to be commissioned in September 2013) - 4000 MW - Coal based.
Urthing Sobla (to be commissioned in March 2014) - 400 MW - Hydropower based.
Tato II (to be commissioned in March 2014) - 700 MW - Hydropower based.
MP Power (to be commissioned in July 2014) - 3960 MW - Coal based.
Siyom (to be commissioned in March 2015) - 1000 MW - Hydropower based.
Kalai II (to be commissioned in March 2016) - 1200 MW - Hydropower based.
Sasan (to be commissioned in April 2016) - 3960 MW - Coal based.

If

everything goes as planned, capacity of Reliance Power at end of each year till 2016 will be:

2008: 0 MW.
2009: 0 MW.
2010: 1500 MW.
2011: 5500 MW.
2012: 5500 MW.
2013: 16980 MW.
2014: 22040 MW.
2015: 23040 MW.
2016: 28200 MW.

=======================================

Other Similar Companies:

I can think of two companies in the power generation sector that Reliance Power can be compared with:

NTPC and Tata Power.

NTPC has current capacity of 28000 MW and has target to achieve 66000 MW by 2017. ( See this thread on NTPC).

Tata Power has current capacity of 2300 MW.
It will be adding 10000 MW of capacity more by 2012. Thus, it will have a capacity of around 12300 MW by 2012 end.
The additions will all be coal based.
-Mundra Ultra Mega Power Project -4000 MW.
-Power plants in Maharastra - 3000 MW.
-Captive power plants for Tata Steel - 2000 MW
-Maithon Power Plant at Jharkhand - 1000 MW.

Tata Power also has other smaller business and also wants to enter shipping and logistics. Besides that Tata Power has investments valued at Rs 400+ per share of Tata Power. This works out to be Rs 10000 crore.
Around 2012 - 2013, both Tata Power is expected to have similar capacity as Reliance Power.

The interesting thing is at current price of Rs 1457, Tata Power is valued at just Rs 30000 crore. Remove Rs 10000 crore of investments and you can have it only for Rs 20000 crore.

At Rs 900, Reliance Power will have market value of 200000 crores....6.67 times that of Tata Power. .

========================================

Financials:

With 2300 MW capacity, Tata Power made standalone profit of Rs 700 crore in FY 2007.

With 28000 MW capacity, NTPC made standalone profit of Rs 6900 crore in FY 2007.

Lets assume Reliance Power turns out to be much more efficient than these two companies. Add to that increased power rates.

With 28200 capacity, assume Reliance Power makes Rs 15000 crore of net profit in 2016-2017. Power companies are considered as utilities and worldwide trade at 10-15 times their earnings.

Lets assume 15 times ratio for Reliance Power in 2016.

What will be its market value?

15000 X 15 = Rs 225000 crore or Rs 995 per share.

This is an optimistic view:
-there will be no further equity dilution till 2016.
-assuming nearly twice as much efficiency as NTPC.
-that all projects will be completed before 2016 end.
-the company would have paid back all debt by then and interest costs would be in similar range as NTPC.

(NTPC already has established 28000 MW capacity and comparatively much lesser interest costs. (NTPC's P&L account states Rs 1800 interest cost for FY 2007).

So what about the debt?

The RHP mentions estimated cost of six projects Rosa I, Rosa II, Butibori, Sasan, Shahpur Coal, Urthing Sobla as Rs 30000 crore+.

Analysts estimate that Reliance Power will need Rs 70000 crore of debt to finance its projects which are estimated to cost 100000 crore+.

Rs 70000 crore of debt is not going to come at 2% interest rate. Even a 6% interest would mean an annual interest cost of Rs 4200 crore. Only in 2013, the company's capacity will cross 10000 MW. Thus, I do not expect any major debt repayment before 2014. If things don't go as planned, the debt burden will make a mockery of the balance sheet.

With Rs 12000 crore raised in equity and Rs 70000 crore of debt, these whole business will become a high-risk venture.

Any unforeseen delay/derailment of plans may create major problems for this company.

========================================

Reliance Power - The Overlooked Fact:

Is Reliance Power just "Reliance Power"?

No.

It is actually "Reliance Power Limited" - a limited company.

So what does this mean for Reliance Power Limited?

It means if in the rare case, the calculations of the management go wrong and the company somehow goes to insolvency, none of the shareholders will lose anything expect the value of the shares.

If you are a share holder of Reliance Power and it goes into insolvency (unable to pay back debts), what do you stand to lose?

Rs 430 per share.

Lot of money....right?

What does Anil Ambani's AAA Project or REL lose?

Both of them had got their 45% (post-IPO) stake for Rs 1000 crore each. Plus they will each subscribe to 1.6 crore shares each at Rs 450 in the IPO......which works out to be Rs 720 crore.

Thus, AAA Project will be getting 101.6 crore shares of Reliance Power for Rs 1720 crore and REL will be getting 101.6 crore shares of Reliance Power for Rs 1720 crore.

Little less than Rs 17 per share.

This is what both the promoters are risking in this project.... Rs 17 per share ; while investors will be risking Rs 450 per share.

This is exactly the reason why Reliance Power was created.

First, by contributing just Rs 1720 crore each to Reliance Power, the promoters have shifted all risk to investors.

Second, by getting 45% stake (in REL's projects) to AAA Project for a mere Rs 1000 crore, AAA Projects (and Anil Ambani) have created wealth out of thin air.

Anil Ambani's Rs 1000 crore investment will be worth Rs 100000 crore when Reliance Power lists at Rs 900.

If the gamble works, the promoters (holding 90% stake in Reliance Power) will be worth billions of dollars.

If the gamble doesn't work, the promoters will lose Rs 1720 crore each and investors will lose Rs 10000+ crore which they will be paying for a mere 10% stake in Reliance Power.

What a way to create wealth...!!!....I don't have words to describe the brilliance of Anil Ambani's plans... .

========================================

So what will I do with this IPO?

Firstly, I will subscribe to it,

not because I think it is a good company or is offering great value at Rs 430,

but because I am in this market to make money.

The markets are in such a frenzy, nobody bothers about valuations anymore........not even QIB and other institutional investors.

Everyone knows that Reliance Power will list at a premium and thus everyone will apply....valuations can wait for some other day.... .

Everyone should wait till last day and apply for it. Just check the subscription levels by 11 AM on last day.
========================================

What will I do post-listing?

For bigger IPO's like Power Grid and Mundra Port, I have followed a sell-half-keep-half strategy.

Assuming listing at Rs 900, for Reliance Power, I will follow sell-all-keep-none strategy.

First, other companies are much cheaper.

Why should I keep a company valued at Rs 200000 crore -

when another company (with similar capacity by 2013) is available at Rs 30000 crore with much smaller debt burden and Rs 10000 crore worth of investments ...........referring to Tata Power.

If Reliance Power (at Rs 900) is available for Rs 200000 crore, why not buy NTPC for a similar price......Rs 225000 crore. NTPC plans to have a capacity of 66000 MW in 2017, while Reliance Power will have 28200 MW capacity in 2016.

Second, the risk is higher than other existing companies.

With marginally cash flows for next 5 years and Rs 70000+ crore of debt, the risk for Reliance Power is high. Tata Power and NTPC have existing cash flows to handle expansions....Reliance Power does not.

Third and the biggest factor is....the valuation of the company doesn't make much sense.

Why should Reliance Power be valued at Rs 200000 crore, when in highly optimistic scenario, it will not make more than Rs 15000 crore of profit in 2016 ? Even if it touches that figure of Rs 15000 crore, its market value in 2016 will not be much more than 225000-300000 crore. (if given a 15-20 times multiple).

A fixed deposit will make more money than that in 8 years.....and that too without any risk.

Also, I got the optimistic Rs 15000 crore figure by assuming two times margins as NTPC.

The fact is..... at least till 2014, Reliance Power will still be carrying most of its Rs 70000 crore debt and its interest costs will squeeze margins to a large extent.

========================================

Final verdict:

Apply.

I will be selling all shares at 9:55..........not even waiting for a better price.

If you want to try for a better price, hold at your own risk.

The level of insanity in the markets is at a high...

Value and risk mean nothing today..... price and profit are the keywords.

Who knows.....the stock may got to Rs 1100 or more.

========================================

Addendum:

Reliance Power may win more projects in the future.

However, it is unlikely that any new project that Reliance Power gets will be commissioned before 2012. Additional projects will also bring additional costs too.

It doesn't make much sense to consider future projects before they are actually won.

Also, Reliance Power is winning projects by offering very low rates - another factor that will decrease margins and increase risks for the company.

For example, in case of Krishnapatnam Ultra Mega Power Project, Reliance Power won with a bid of Rs 2.33 per unit.

L&T had bid Rs 2.69 per unit and Sterlite had bid Rs 4.19 per unit. Such aggressive pricing may backfire if costs rise due to some unexpected factors

2602. bhanu |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:21:02 PM
2620. priya

It is not possibel to allot shares to you

CHeque should be cleared
2601. sachin k |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:19:16 PM
Hi, what does grey market premium means. Does this mean issue price + . For example: reliance Ipo will have grey market price 250, does this mean 450 + 250(grey market price). I am confused can anyone make it clear to me. Thank in advance.
2600. Shoeb |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:18:51 PM
2620. priya
have you applied using manul process..
2599. priya |   Link |  Bookmark | January 23, 2008 3:07:12 PM
RPL cheque still not cleared. whats about others?