63.1. Ou Ai| Link| Bookmark|
October 2, 2022 6:14:25 PM
Top Contributor (300+ Posts, 300+ Likes)
@Asoke sarkar Do not fancy milk producing shares as my investment experience in milking returns from milk producing companies has been akin to fostering an old weaned out cow! Not much to write about despite my initial belief in milk industry. India as largest global producer & consumer with 22% global share at Rs 13000 bn market surprisingly is not helping milk companies translate it into good profits. Was invested in Heritage for good 5 years. Never saw the invested price and booked losses in spite of management's closeness to TDP in then AP through its chairperson. Similar are stories with Dodla dairy and Parag Milks.
Milk market is growing at 6% CAGR, but the company's profitability does not. Only inference could be pricing power which is inelastic. Every state also has a state-owned milk production and distribution, and prices are kept in check due to local needs. Heritage is offering rights at 5 on 1:1, similar to mini bonus. Prices may go up with this news. Divest if you get a chance at cum rights. Have sold Dodla, Heritage with marginal profit and loss respectively and waiting to rid Parag with minimal losses. Trust this helps..
@ Ou Ai Thank you for your observation. Nor do I have any fancy for such company except a try for reaping in Right' issue. In this case I see a peculiar thing that Rights issue envisaged at Rs 5 (at fv ) not experienced earlier by me. It is different from bonus issue as in bonus issue the amount comes from the reserve of the company but here the amount adds to the company. Moreover, the bonus issue is an equitable procedure without causing any harm to the existing share holders. I ask for your view for clarification on one point. In its declaration, the company has expressed that the promter and the promoter group may (which actually means will) subscribe to all unsubscribed shares in this issue. Does it mean that the unsubscribed portion will not be equitably distributed as we see in rights issue cases ? My confusion has trembled seeing the movement of the share last day. With the flow of the news the share moved but returned from the brink of 20% upper circuit and settled around 8% up. Be it , it is nothing for us but huge for the company . Be not , it' s great . I shall be thankful for an early clarification. Thanking you.
63.3. Ou Ai| Link| Bookmark|
October 3, 2022 8:59:57 AM
Top Contributor (300+ Posts, 300+ Likes)
@Asoke sarkar In bonus issue, reserves get converted to equity capital by capitalizing reserves as rightly mentioned. Instead of offering bonus, sometimes managements adopt rights issue at very attractive prices with low premium wherein equity is added as in bonus and reserves too are added in share premium account. Raising capital at par is also a means of rewarding shareholders and benefiting the company with more capital to service any repayment or expansion needs.
Rights issue is on equitable basis offered in the same ratio to all shareholders. With this promoters' holding remains unchanged, if subscribed to their entitlement. Any unsubscribed portion continues to be allotted on equitable basis to those subscribing additional shares in the same proportion of leftover shares to additional subscription. This holds good to prompters too. This has not changed.
However, SEBI came out with a regulation couple years ago stating that promoters can choose not to subscribe in rights issues in the same proportion or even not subscribe at all offering their rights to common shareholders wherein public shareholding will increase and promoters will decrease. This was done to facilitate promoters whose holdings were over 75%, with current regulation mandating minimum 25% public holding to listed companies. In many cases, current promoters needed to divest their portion to reduce below 75%. Subsequently SEBI added a circular stating that promoters can issue new shares via FPO or rights issues instead of divesting, wherein they don't subscribe or partially subscribe bringing their holdings to lesser level. This necessitated now promoters clearly state their intent beforehand in a rights issue whether they will subscribe or not, fully subscribe rights or also subscribe leftover shares. Since the intent is to indicate, if they wish to retain existing percentage of holdings or reduce, meaning of subscribing to leftover shares is subscribing for additional shares in the same way as a common shareholder.
In addition, rights issues where shareholders don't subscribe to rights shares, if the share is issued at a premium higher or closer to market price large portion goes unsubscribed. In such an event promoter has to shelve the issue or decide to subscribe increasing their holdings at a loss to market price. Here promoters are stating their intent to subscribe all, if issue devolves which is not going to be the case when rights is at par.
Hope this clarifies the rights issue. If share price fell due to a misinterpretation, it may be an opportunity to buy on short term.
63.4. Kapz| Link| Bookmark|
October 3, 2022 9:40:27 AM
IPO Mentor (600+ Posts, 300+ Likes)
@Ou Ai, thanks a lot for explaining various facets of rights issue so well. Learnt a lot from it. 🙏
@ Ou Ai Thank you for your nice presentation. By the time I have got some points to share with . 1. Sec 62 of companies Act 2013 governs the frame work for Rights issue which is in continuation of sec 81 of companies Act 1956 with some crucial changes. 2.The Board has an absolute discretion in determining the prices . 3.The validity of the Rights issue can't be challenged so long as it is not disadvantageous to the share holders and the company. 4.Sec 62 of the Act envisages proportional entitlement for the existing holders. But in case of non compliance on the part of the holder within the stipulated time, the Board may dispose of such shares in a manner which is not disadvantageous to the share holder and the company.
So what comes out : 1. Any share holder does not have any right to the proportional entitlement of the unsubscribed shares. So , it is absolutely in the hand of the board who to get that portion. Even the law have not debarred the Board for allotment to third party. 2. So I think the company promoters will grab all the unsubscribed shares (though may be comparatively small in number but as expressed in its intension ) at FV. In other words this rights issue is only for the benefit of the promoter whatever as it looks now. 3. Right' s issue at fv should have been more attractive but initial dusts having settled it is no more. 4. I shall wait and see whether sizeable correction comes.
Thank you
63.6. Ou Ai| Link| Bookmark|
October 4, 2022 12:01:46 PM
Top Contributor (300+ Posts, 300+ Likes)
@Asoke sarkar One must not read company law in isolation. Point 3 is lucid in its explanation "that is not disadvantageous .....". Even a small issue by promoters to issue additional shares by QIP or warrants convertible altering the public shareholding percentage need approval by AGM or EGM. There are several checks by SEBI disclosures and mandates before listed company's promoter can indulge in malpractice.
Unsubscribed portion by definition is total rights issue share reduced by number of shares subscribed with additional shares. In an attractive issue this will always be oversubscribed. The allotment in rights issue is now (from April 2021) done by the designated exchange on reckoning the oversubscription as per SEBI guidelines. So am not worried.... Trust this helps..
60. Aman Ipo| Link| Bookmark|
October 1, 2022 11:21:45 PM
Top Contributor (400+ Posts, 200+ Likes)
@MonsterZero Please advice on Srf, Sumitomo chemicals, jb chemicals, Cera sanitaryware, Polycab. Can these be bought at CMP?
60.1. Ou Ai| Link| Bookmark|
October 2, 2022 5:33:05 PM
Top Contributor (300+ Posts, 300+ Likes)
@Aman Ipo While @MonsterZero perhaps will respond you as he does to all being a good soul, am pitching in with some information due to my investments in all these five counters you mentioned. First you must decide the time frame. How long? Your returns will depend on investment time span and ability to hold over a longer period.
SRF is an amazing story. Add it if you plan to keep next 10 years for immense wealth creation. So far it has given 5X in 10 years. It is already a multi bagger to those invested earlier.
Sumitomo Chemicals was erstwhile Excel Crop care industries belonging to Shroffs of UPL & Excel Industries. Excel corp was too a multi bagger and once the company was sold to Sumitomo, the appreciation has been minimal. Those of us who got Sumitomo shares in exchange to Excel Crop reaped and harvested maximum benefit. Japanese firms in general are not good at increasing shareholders value as their growth philosophy is more offering quality products with safety, sustainability etc So, one can see numerous Japanese promoted firms like Isuzu motors, Nitta Gelatin, Panasonic, etc that have not offered benefits to shareholders for decades. Same was the case with Eicher Motors which was initially with Mitsubishi for decades and all changed for that stock as soon as the stake was sold to Volvo with buying Enfield. Maruti which was an exception in the early years is also a laggard at present. Sumitomo is a clear avoid
Jb Chemicals gave 9X returns in 7 years. Major spike came when KKR bought over 54% majority. KKR known to resell post adding value, one can add it for real long term.
Cera Sanitary gave stupendous returns of 45X in 12 years from 166 to 5400. I doubt its ability to move up and give similar returns in future.
Polycab is the new kid on the block recommended plenty from several quarters. Appear good from their product portfolio and dealer spread. From the current price level, it will offer normal moderate returns. Whether it will be a multi bagger from these levels is hard to say.
Am invested in all above shares and reaped entire multi-X returns over the periods mentioned except Polycab which is sold sometime after listing. Honestly, one must look at counters that are not in any recommendations, early before it is in anyone's eyesight, before they emerge into limelight. At low prices one gets opportunity to buy in big numbers which creates real good profit and wealth over few years, but generally not less than 5 years. Sometime lucky to be within 3 years. Quite a good number of stocks are available in small cap and mid cap as well as SME sector. However, do note that few midcap and small cap do also fail losing invested capital. Be careful in SME on genuineness of financials & governance issues. Happy Investing...
60.2. Aman Ipo| Link| Bookmark|
October 2, 2022 6:17:19 PM
Top Contributor (400+ Posts, 200+ Likes)
@Ou Ai Thank you so much for giving such a detailed reply on each of the five stocks.
59. ℙ𝕣𝕠𝕗𝕖𝕤𝕤𝕠𝕣| Link| Bookmark|
October 2, 2022 5:06:06 PM
Top Contributor (500+ Posts, 100+ Likes)
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58. Ou Ai| Link| Bookmark|
October 2, 2022 4:32:14 PM
Top Contributor (300+ Posts, 300+ Likes)
Tulasi Tanti founder chairman of Suzlon Industrie passed away today. Wonder what happens to this bankrupt company with no ruder and rights issue announced. Good possibility of a takeover.
I have funds for 3 Retail Maximum or 3 HNI Maximum.... how should i apply for electronics mart ipo for max chances of allotment and listing gains... ????
Hi Varanium cloud holders, important message. Please book profit and exit the share. Reason: The largest shareholder had already sold the shares. If you look at BOA you will find, the largest 2 NII(row 51,52 of BOA) who got the share(522000 shares out of total 1257000 NII shares), have already sold the shares in bulk deal.
Hello Seniors Your kind suggestion is very important for investment purpose Kindly advise on uma export alloted in ipo plz let me know how much iam waiting to come on there basic ipo price @ 68/- Thanks in advance
@ Nilesh B For the last three months this share has been hovering around 50 level after registering a high of 92 & 88 in bse and nse respectively. Recently, 47 low in nse has breached , the new low being 46. In bse a sudden low of 42 registered. I am tracking this share for quite some time and willing to buy it in the range of 40 .Though the other companies in this segment are not going good, its performance also deteriorated but it is ruuning with p/e 5.5 which may reduce to 6 to 7 this year. As it is in this present range for quite sometime without giving any meaningful bounce with the market movement , I think it is most likely to give a sudden deep any time . To make it a catching point , I put pre-emptive buy order near 40 everyday. This share is not likely to give good gain in near future but may give gain in six month time. Thank you
we have section for secondary market views and opinions. But ppl are filling this IPO space. Anything other than about this IPO, is just like a spam. Please avoid it. Otherwise message about this IPO will get diluted in the deluge of messages. Thank you
There is nothing more to discuss on this IPO. WHAT TO ask. What is GMP. How many lots to apply. Many more days are there to close this. Let members post for other, it may be useful sometimes. There is no such rule. Have a positive day.
I have one agricultural loan(SBI Bank) and would be utilizing the amount in 4-5 months. Can I use that amount for IPO application asba/UPI mandate? is it possible? Experts please guide.
U have to transfer the amount from loan account to your liked savings account. And then u can use the funds for ipo. You will be charged interest once you withdraw from loan account. That's what my neighbour did .. using his home loan account for ipo money.
@MAHENDER KUMAR....app jo bol the hai wo sunne ke liye accha hai . but practical nhi hai... Waise aap apni FD ke upar 90% tak overdraft le sakte hai...... Uss overdraft pe apko interest dena hoga ..jo ki kafi kam hota hai.
50.10. SamJos| Link| Bookmark|
October 1, 2022 1:15:57 AM
Top Contributor (500+ Posts, 100+ Likes)
@MAHENDRAKUMAR ASBA is available to every savings a/c irrespective of sweep-in-fd (different bank call it with different name- ultimately when idle amount reach above certain figure, fd is auto created, & fd is auto cancelled when amount is savings a/c drop below certain level) is enabled or not. But once you apply for ipo & amount is blocked in ASBA, it is hold in savings a/c & not sweep-in-fd, so what you get us savings a/c rate & not fd rate. Once amount is unblocked, & is higher than threshold, fd is created.
@Monster Hero Od on fd can be taken, & is around 2% interest higher than fd interest, but it is very tiresome & manual, so you might pay interest 1-2 days more than routine ipo period.
50.11. SamJos| Link| Bookmark|
October 1, 2022 1:20:42 AM
Top Contributor (500+ Posts, 100+ Likes)
@IPOGUY Don't bother. I have seen many taking agricultural loan being farmer. Benefits are loan carry much lower interest rate than routine loans, & there is always remote possibility in election years that it may be waived of completely.
@SamJos When there is need of funds, some efforts need to be done. Earlier there was no rules and one can apply from ODFD directly and getting FD interest. Even I had taken this benefit. Authorities are also clever and discontinued this system. Now you have to transfer funds to Savings, all know. We can't keep our five fingers always in Ghee. Give and take. Use ODFD only on last day and transfer again as soon as unblocked. If allotted "Paancho ungliya Ghee me aur sir kadhayme". We are never in loss while using ODFD. Only Luck. For big profit need to spend some thing from pocket. So, take it easy and enjoy Share Market. Suno sabki aur karo man ki.
After analysing boa of mainboard, it appears that if the issue has been subscribed around 70x or more in HNI then every lot, 68 and above gets 30 to 40 applications with same allotment ratio in all lots. For SHNI, the situation is more or less same.